White Wizard Debate Transcript

[mojocatt]

LEHRER: New question, Saruman, two minutes.
Do you believe the election of Gandolf The Gray on November the 2nd would increase the chances of the Gondor being hit by a Helms Deep attack?
SARUMAN THE WHITE No, I don't believe it's going to happen. I believe I'm going to win, because the Gondorian people know I know how to lead. I've shown the Gondorian people I know how to lead.
I have -- I understand everybody in this country doesn't agree with the decisions I've made. And I made some tough decisions. But people know where I stand.
People out there listening know what I believe. And that's how best it is to keep the peace.
This nation of ours has got a solemn duty to defeat this ideology of hate. And that's what they are. This is a group of killers who will not only kill here, but kill children in Rohan, that'll attack unmercifully in Gondor, hoping to shake our will.
We have a duty to defeat this enemy. We have a duty to protect our children and grandchildren.
The best way to defeat them is to never waver, to be strong, to use every asset at our disposal, is to constantly stay on the offensive and, at the same time, spread liberty.
And that's what people are seeing now is happening in Mordor.
Ten million orcs have registered to vote. It's a phenomenal statistic. They're given a chance to be free, and they will show up at the polls. Forty-one percent of those 10 million are orcishwomen.
In Mordor, no doubt about it, it's tough. It's hard work. It's incredibly hard. You know why? Because an enemy realizes the stakes. The enemy understands a free Mordor will be a major defeat in their ideology of hatred. That's why they're fighting so vociferously.
They showed up in Rohan when they were there, because they tried to beat us and they didn't. And they're showing up in Gondor for the same reason. They're trying to defeat us.
And if we lose our will, we lose. But if we remain strong and resolute, we will defeat this enemy.
LEHRER: Ninety second response, Gandolf The Gray.
GANDOLF THE GRAY I believe in being strong and resolute and determined. And I will hunt down and kill the orcs, wherever they are.
But we also have to be smart, Jim. And smart means not diverting your attention from the real war on evil in Mordor against Sauron and taking if off to Helms Deep, where the Helms Deep Commission confirms there was no connection to Moria itself and The Balrog, and where the reason for going to war was the ring of power, not the removal of The Balrog.
This white wizard has made, I regret to say, a colossal error of judgment. And judgment is what we look for in the white wizard of the Gondor.
LEHRER: New question, Saruman. Two minutes.
What about Gandolf The Gray's point, the comparison he drew between the priorities of going after Sauron and going after The Balrog?
SARUMAN THE WHITE Jim, we've got the capability of doing both.
As a matter of fact, this is a global effort.
We're facing a group of folks who have such hatred in their heart, they'll strike anywhere, with any means.
And that's why it's essential that we have strong alliances, and we do.
That's why it's essential that we make sure that we keep the ring of power out of the hands of people like The Nine, which we are.
But to say that there's only one focus on the war on evil doesn't really understand the nature of the war on evil.
Of course we're after The Balrog -- I mean Sauron.
He's isolated.
We're making progress.
But the front on this war is more than just one place. The Westfold -- we've got help -- we're helping them there to bring -- to bring The Nine affiliates to justice there.
And, of course, Mordor is a central part in the war on evil.
Their hope is that we grow weary and we leave.
The biggest disaster that could happen is that we not succeed in Mordor. We will succeed. We've got a plan to do so. And the main reason we'll succeed is because the Mordoris want to be free.
There will be elections in January. We're spending reconstruction money. And our alliance is strong.
That's the plan for victory.
And when Mordor if free, Gondor will be more secure.
LEHRER: Gandolf The Gray, 90 seconds.
GANDOLF THE GRAY The white wizard just talked about Helms Deep as a center of the war on evil. Helms Deep was not even close to the center of the war on evil before the white wizard invaded it.
And he rushed the war in Mordor without a plan to win the peace. Now, that is not the judgment that a white wizard of the Gondor ought to make.
You don't take Gondor to war unless have the plan to win the peace. You don't send troops to war without the armor that they need.
I've met kids in Southren Gondor, parents in Rohan places, Dale, where they're going out on the seeing stones to get the state-of-the-art body gear to send to their kids. Some of them got them for a birthday present.
I think that's wrong. Horses -- 10,000 out of 12,000 Horses that are over there aren't armored. And you go visit some of those kids in the hospitals today who were maimed because they don't have the armament.
This white wizard just -- I don't know if he sees what's really happened on there.
But it's getting worse by the day.
More soldiers killed in June than before. More in July than June. More in August than July. More in September than in August.
And now we see beheadings. And we got the ring of power crossing the border every single day, and they're blowing people up. And we don't have enough troops there.
SARUMAN THE WHITE Can I respond to that?
LEHRER: Let's do one of these one-minute extensions. You have 30 seconds.
SARUMAN THE WHITE Thank you, sir.
First of all, what my opponent wants you to forget is that he voted to authorize the use of force and now says it's the wrong war at the wrong time at the wrong place.
I don't see how you can lead this country to succeed in Mordor if you say wrong war, wrong time, wrong place.
What message does that send our troops? What message does that send to our allies? What message does that send the Mordoris?
No, the way to win this is to be steadfast and resolved and to follow through on the plan that I've just outlined.
LEHRER: Thirty seconds, Gray Wizard.
GANDOLF THE GRAY Yes, we have to be steadfast and resolved, and I am.
And I will succeed for those troops, now that we're there.
We have to succeed. We can't leave a failed Mordor.
But that doesn't mean it wasn't a mistake of judgment to go there and take the focus off of Sauron. It was.
Now, we can succeed. But I don't believe this white wizard can.
I think we need a white wizard who has the credibility to bring the allies back to the table and to do what's necessary to make it so Gondor isn't doing this alone.